Bill: OKAY. NOW, A LOT OF REVIEWS, THE SAME THING KEEPS COMING UP AND THAT IS IT'S LESS ANGRY. THERE'S I GUESS ONE KIND OF CYNICAL SONG, BUT COURTNEY HAS SAID FOR THE MOST PART SAID IT'S A HOPEFUL RECORD. CAN YOU SEE THE HOPE WHEN SHE FIRST PRESENTED THE LYRICS TO THE BAND? COULD YOU HEAR WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT?

M: I THINK EVERYTHING WAS KIND OF MORE HEADING TOWARDS A PRODUCTION -- LIKE WE WANTED TO BE TECHNICALLY MORE PROFICIENT. THERE'S A LOT -- LET'S BE PRODUCTIVE HERE. LET'S BECOME BETTER PEOPLE. LET'S BECOME A BETTER BASS PLAYER, BETTER SONGWRITERS, BETTER -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. THERE'S A LOT OF LIGHT THAT WAS, YOU KNOW -- WE WERE AIMING TOWARDS HIGHER PLACES, I THINK, ON MANY LEVELS, SO I THINK THAT THAT MAKES SENSE AND WILL BE REFLECTED IN THE LYRICS, TOO.

M:IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY TO JUST...

Bill: ANOTHER ANGRY RECORD.

M:YEAH, ANOTHER RECORD...

E:I THINK COURTNEY MENTIONED THAT IT WAS A CHALLENGE FOR HER TO EDIT AND TO THINK ABOUT MORE CLEARLY WHAT SHE WANTED TO PRESENT INSTEAD OF JUST RIPPING OUT PAGES OUT OF YOUR DIARY, AND SHE'D KIND OF DONE THAT BEFORE.

Bill: WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? WAS THAT JUST A NATURAL PROGRESSION FROM GETTING OLDER AND JUST DEALING WITH THE MUSIC BUSINESS AND JUST LEARNING? BECAUSE I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW MUCH PRESS WAS -- AND ATTENTION WAS GENERATED FROM BILLY CORGAN'S SLIGHT INPUT. YOU KEPT READING ABOUT IT OVER AND OVER. IT WAS ALMOST LIKE HE JOINED THE BAND WAS THE IMPRESSION THAT I WAS GETTING.

M:UM-HMM.

Bill: HOW MUCH INVOLVEMENT WAS THERE?

M:OH, BILLY -- BILLY'S ALWAYS BEEN AROUND. (Chuckling) BILLY WAS GOING OUT WITH COURTNEY BEFORE. BILLY GOT ME IN THE BAND. I MADE A RECORD WITH RICK OCASEK LAST YEAR. BILLY WAS INVOLVED. HE'S JUST AROUND. HE'S OUR FRIEND BILLY. BUT HE WAS REALLY GREAT FOR MOTIVATING COURTNEY. A LOT OF, LIKE -- WE ALL WENT TO, LIKE, RESEARCH A BIT MORE. BUT, LIKE, I LISTENED TO LED ZEPPELIN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF AND LISTENED TO WHAT MADE A GREAT RHYTHM SECTION; COURTNEY LISTENED TO SINATRA; HE LISTENED TO, YOU KNOW, LINDSAY BUCKINGHAM, WHATEVER. AND BILLY WAS REALLY GREAT WITH VOCAL PHRASING AND REALLY HELPED OUT A LOT IN THAT WAY. HE WAS JUST A GOOD FRIEND.

E:YEAH, HE WAS JUST A FRIEND THAT CAME IN AND HELPED FOR LIKE TWELVE DAYS. YOU KNOW, THAT WAS IT.

M:AND WE WERE JUST BEING HONEST ABOUT IT.

E:YEAH.

Bill: THE PRESS SEEMED TO...

M:OF COURSE. OH, MY GOD. LOOK HOW BIG THAT GUY IS, AND WHO ARE WE LITTLE LADIES?

M:I MEAN, HE IS A BIG PERSONA, AND SO IT KIND OF...

Bill: WHY IS HE REPRESENTED BY A SWAN?

M:COURTNEY WANTED HIM TO BE PRESENTED AS SOMETHING GRACEFUL.

BE BEAUTIFUL.

Bill: OKAY. I DON'T SEE IT, BUT THEN AGAIN... THAT'S OKAY.

E:BUT WE SEE IT.

Bill: OKAY. THAT'S GOOD THEN. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHY SO MUCH WATER IS INVOLVED WITH THE RECORD. THERE'S A LOT OF REFERENCES TO WATER. YOU TALK ABOUT THIS RECORD IS DEDICATED TO ALL THE STOLEN WATER OF LOS ANGELES. THERE'S PICTURES OF LIKE THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER.

M:IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH AGAIN THE WHOLE CALIFORNIA THING, WHICH IS THE HISTORY OF LOS ANGELES AND IT BEING THE DESERT, THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE. WE SHOULDN'T BE LIVING THERE. THERE SHOULDN'T BE FANCY HOMES AND TROPICAL FLOWERS. IT'S A BIG MAN-MADE PARADISE, AND THAT -- KIND OF LIKE THAT NOTION OF IMPORTING SPIRITUALITY OR DEPTH OR WATER FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE TO MAKE A COMMUNITY THAT'S AN AMAZING KIND OF CONCEPT. IT'S LIKE THAT FILM "CHINATOWN." IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT MADE LOS ANGELES LOS ANGELES. AND THEN WITHIN THAT, THERE'S ALSO FIRE AND WATER AND ALL THE, YOU KNOW, NATURE MEETS INDUSTRIALIZATION, WHATEVER.

Bill: THE WHOLE STATE STEMMED... MENTALITY THOUGH.

M:AND ALSO THEY'RE JUST NICE IMAGES, LIKE THE DROWNING WOMAN AND THEN THE PALM TREES ON FIRE. THOSE ARE PICTURES OF THE MALIBU FIRES, WHICH IS SUCH A...

E:AND WHILE WE WERE MAKING THIS ALBUM, YOU KNOW, THE WATER BECAME A METAPHOR OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAD LOST, AND SOME PEOPLE OUTSIDE OUR CIRCLE, OUR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DROWNINGS AND -- JUST -- IT BECAME A -- JUST A BIG METAPHOR.

Bill: A NICE PERSONAL ANGLE FOR YOU, TOO. IT MEANS SOMETHING TO YOU AS WELL. OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE FIRST TRACK WHICH IS "CELEBRITY SKIN." WHAT'S THE SECOND SINGLE? DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE?

E:"MALIBU." WE JUST SHOT THE VIDEO. IT'S MORE FIRE AND WATER.

Bill: OKAY. YOU LOOK GREAT IN THE FIRST VIDEO. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE SECOND VIDEO. HERE'S "CELEBRITY SKIN," TITLE TRACK FROM HOLE RIGHT HERE ON Much. (Video played)

---